Why is the Codea Runtime closed source?

I thought I might as well ask, because it’s been a hassle for debugging and I’ve been wondering for a while: Why is the Codea runtime closed source?
I do understand the concern that people might not purchase Codea if they have access to the runtime, but then you might as well just not put the open source version on something like GitHub.
Using a closed source runtime has costed me unbearable hours of my time trying to fix crashes that doesn’t have to do with my code (some of it was, though). Let’s face it: A 2 man company cannot fix all the bugs in the runtime, but having it closed source is just making it worse for users to debug.
I just think it should be open source, so I’m putting the idea out there for discussion.

I agree, and IMO you wouldn’t lose any sales really.

It’d be really useful to help fill gaps in the documentation and find the order Codea does stuff, etc, too!

Purchaser ID on next codea update for a download of the open source runtime means you won’t lose sales, but then again we should wait to see what the new runtime is like first, would be good for people to be able to work on it themselves though.

@Luatee - I’m not suggesting they work on it themselves, just that we have the source to know what is causing crashes, etc. That being said, if people could contribute to the runtime, that’d be amazing.

@Zoyt I understand but as you said it would be amazing if little nooks and crannies could be added by the community to make it better.

I think people won’t not buy it because they have access to the runtime because the runtime works only through Xcode correct? The whole point of the app is coding on the iPad so if they are ok with working in Xcode they probably wouldn’t buy Codea anyways.

@JakAttak - I agree, it’d only be a very small fraction of people who would not buy it. But I’m just refuting arguments.

I think there might be a small decrease in sales if the runtime was open source. Yeah, you’d only be able to use it on Macs, but if you have a Mac, and all the functionality of the app, what’s the point of getting the app if it costs money? You wouldn’t be able to code everywhere unless you brung your Mac with you, but most of us are just at home while we code, and it seems a bit easier to sit and your computer and code, rather than on your iPad.

Edit: However, the iOS simulator is much slower, and would be hard to test your code for real unless it’s on an iPad…

"...most of us are just at home while we code..."

I don’t think that’s really true.

@SkyTheCoder - The majority of Codea users found out about it and bought it because they don’t have a laptop to develop on. I’m am constantly on the go, and I bought (on the first day of release, when it was Codify) right away when I saw the article on it. I still don’t have a laptop, and I couldn’t have made StackIt if I didn’t have Codea. That being said, if everyone knew the runtime was open source before buying, I think there might be a very slight decrease in sales, but even then, people don’t do too much research before buying apps now and days.

Well I did a fair amount of research before buying Codea but I also got it back when it was Codify and found out about it from AppAdvice. I was really intrigued at the possibility of coding on my iPad.

I just feel like those old people saying “Back in my day… Codea was called Codify.”

I found about Codea (was called Codea when I found it) by not doing my work in science class, haven’t regretted it yet!

you’re talking about the additions they made to the Lua runtime which is on github, right? the additions that handle the setup() and draw() (among others) functions that Codea adds to the Lua Runtime?

@matkatmusic - Back when the runtime was in beta, it was open source, then TLL added a way to extend the runtime and set it to v1, resulting in it being closed source. So yes, I’m looking for all the Codea additions to the Lua interpreter to be open source.

Having the runtime open source would be my highest priority feature request. :slight_smile:

One release with the latest version would mean a lot, dont need to make runtime releases all the time if that is a big overhead to maintain.

I agree with @tnlogy.

I don’t understand? Is the runtime the same thing as the xcode source they use to make the Codea app? If so I totally understand why you wouldn’t want to release it.

Too many legal ramifications (a fellow, not on these forums of course, could make a contribution and then sue them for using his/her code), or too much risk that a company like Game Salad, or Click Team would totally steal the source code and come out with a competitor to Codea.

Now if you were to send a private message to them, and then sign a confidentiality agreement, saying any changes you make are totally theirs, with no expectation of compensation, that might work. You’d have to keep their source code secure too.

As for publicly releasing the source code, I think that for now that would not be wise. When the app is a few years older and is no longer bringing in revenue I could see it merging into an open source project.

On the other hand, if the runtime is something else, then please forgive my ignorance and disregard the stupid remarks above. I suspect the runtime you are talking about is actually the LUA interpreter and not the actual xcode source.

@MrScience101 - The runtime is what is used to run the app, not the IDE and everything else in Codea. So anything you see after you hit that run button in Codea is what what is in the runtime.

You see? My ignorance is shameful. I do apologize.